There’s an art to enrolling people in things that you want to see happen, in particular, with cold outreach.
Maybe you’re trying to get a job interview or meet your favourite singer.
Or, maybe you want to get Seth Godin or another business hero on your new podcast…
Over the years, I’ve seen cold outreach open up a ton of opportunities, and now with social media and more lateral connection, it’s only gotten easier.
In this post I want to talk you through the steps I took to get Seth on my podcast. I get asked about this a lot, and have been meaning to outline it.
Part of why I think it may be helpful, is I think it follows a similar theme to other successful cold enrolments I’ve done (jobs, meetings etc), and, is kind of how I think about outreach in general.
For those of you who don’t know, Seth Godin has written 20 international best selling books, basically created permission-based email marketing, built and sold companies to Yahoo! and has taught thousands in his altMBA program and other workshops.
Seth is arguably the thought leader and teacher in modern marketing.
Here’s how I got enrolled him as a guest.
The Context
Back in 2015, someone told me about this marketing guru/author named Seth Godin.
I owned a gym at the time, was mildly interested, but it didn’t really grab me. I was busy, and although I read, I wasn’t deep into marketing work or self-development stuff at the time. I still hadn’t listened to a podcast.
Later that year, someone sent my one of his blog posts (worth signing up).
It was a great post. I researched deeper, and learned not only had Seth started and run some successful companies and projects, he’d written these posts every day for years.
Like 7,000 blog posts at that stage…
I’m a sucker for someone that’s consistent. So, I ended up signing up, and ordered one of his books, “The Icarus Deception.”
I was hooked. From late 2017, I’ve read his blog, I’ve bought his books, completed his relatively intense altMBA workshop, taken his Story Skills Workshop and listened to many of his podcasts.
I forward his work regularly, and I’ve given his book “Linchpin” to more people than any other book.
(Side note – For a while there, I even went back and listened to the Q&A section of his podcast, and typed out any question that was relevant to small business, and his corresponding answers…)
I was what Kevin Kelly calls a “True Fan.”
So, realising I was learning a lot from this guy, in December 12th, 2017, I too started blogging daily. I even followed him in starting a podcast. When I learn, I like to watch what people do, not just what they say.
For a period there, each time I took a step in his direction, good things happened.
Anyway, in 2020, I decided to try to enrol him into an interview on my own podcast.
I had no idea how. My small business podcast is relatively small and niched, while he more or less is untouchable. His email list alone has over 1 million readers. Seth is like a marketing deity.
But still, it’s a possibility.
A few months later, at 4:50am on a Saturday, I was recording with Seth himself as he sat in his office in New York.
Seeing the opportunity. December 2nd, 2019
An ad popped up on Instagram about a live workshop in Australia that Seth was going to teach at a few months later in Sydney. It was a day-long workshop, and I was keen to go down and participate.
I was starting to ramp up my podcast at the time, and I thought, hey, maybe I can grab 30 minutes with him after the workshop and record live? At this stage, most of my episodes were done in person…
So, I sent him an email.
The First email. Wednesday December 11th, 2019
Regardless of what you’re trying to do, I think the first message you send, or first email outreach, of course, is critical.
It doesn’t matter if it’s for a job application, interview, or podcast guest. If you want to enrol someone who’s brutally busy with big projects, you need to be able to resonate within the first few words.
Straight away, it helps to show appreciation for their work.
Yesterday I got a cold outreach email from someone wanting to get me onto a new podcast platform. He started the email with “I just listened to your podcast – you did a really good job! In fact, I was thinking you might like…” then he tried to sell me on the platform…
As you can see, that’s awful. There’s no chance he listened to an episode. (I replied and asked him which of the 125 episodes he liked, and what he liked about it? He hasn’t replied…) You need to do better than that.
First show appreciation – the first place you can do this is in the subject.
My subject was: “Sydney Workshop: Podcast with a student?”
I did this because I knew the Sydney workshop would be on his mind, and important to him. I mentioned “podcast” so he knew what the email was for. It gave him the intent. Finally, I had “with a student” because I know he likes to use the word “student,” so it shows that I’m familiar with his work on a deeper level.
Then the body (remember, first few words are key…)
Here’s what I said:
OK – this has been crafted.
- “Generous work” is a Seth-ism. This is the 5th word of the email. Using language that’s common within his communities shows I’m familiar with his work (committed).
- I mentioned my own daily blog – Seth (like most teachers) doesn’t care about how much you say you “learn” from them, but how much you “do” with the things that you learn. Seth likes his students to create, produce, and “make a ruckus.”
- Saying that the blog was “since 2017” was key – it shows persistence. Another core value to create resonance.
- I mention the workshop, and appreciation of the travel. I know he doesn’t like long haul flight. So, I acknowledge it.
OK, so within three lines, I’ve created resonance. Hopefully.
The Ask
The next bit is the ask. I go straight in, because there’s no real option, and now I’m aware I don’t want to waste his time.
“I have a bold question here, perhaps the best way is to go straight in: would you consider carving out time for an in-person video podcast while you are in Sydney?”
In this part, I’m direct and clear. He’s already spent 30-45 seconds on the email if he makes it to here, so I want to minimise further time.
The rest of the email is short, and basically says I understand if he isn’t able to, as I’m aware he may not have the time.
Handling Rejection
The next day he responds, it’s a “no.”
OK. So for me, when I hear a no with this kind of thing, I assume it’s a “No for now…” And, I know he’s good with this assumption, because he’s mentioned it before when he’s taught sales.
I wrote him back a couple of days later and just said, no problems, thanks for taking the time.
“I’ll keep trucking, perhaps I can work on a plan to create a zoom podcast with you in the future around episode 100.”
No reply expected from that one. None received.
Asking Again…
April 16th, 2020. Covid has shut down the scheduled workshop, and I go again…
- You can see I show appreciation for his work, specific to that period. This was deep in the Covid news media hype (that unsurprisingly, hasn’t really slowed down), and I mentioned I liked how he approached his work at this time.
- I also go straight in with the ask again, and see if he’s keen to help me celebrate episode 100 coming up.
- I specify a “zoom” podcast. I know this is easy, and fast for him. I also know he isn’t traveling to Australia for the workshop, so may feel up to it…
Twenty Minutes Later…
Seth writes back, three words
“sure, happy to.”
We’re on.
Organising
From here, it’s nuts and bolts. We organised a time. Sometimes you want to propose the time, other times you let them. It depends on the context. In this case, he set a date a month later. He already knows my audience (I specified it previously).
We ended up with a 5am start local time on a Saturday, which is around 3pm Friday for him I think.
Make sure to put that one in the calendar.
Recording
I don’t really want to talk about the podcast itself, because you can listen to it here or on the link at the bottom. But the only other note I’d say is that I know Seth moves fast, and that he’s intentional with his time.
This is likely true with any hero you have who’s at the top of their game.
For that reason, I was up at 4am, making sure everything was working. I didn’t wan’t any glitches. I tested zoom, twice. I got some food and coffee in. Then on May 1st, 3pm NY time (which happened to be my birthday on May 2nd here), we recorded.*
*We actually kicked off ten minutes early… because, well, he was ready to go ten minutes early.
Your Generous Outreach
Everyone gets a ton of incoming these days. I have emails coming in all the time. Cold offers on LinkedIn, Instagram DM’s, even mail in the mailbox… A lot of it barely makes it through because it’s spam.
I’m sure you can resonate.
So that means if you’re going for a job, interview, or anything else, your main focus at the start is really to make sure that it doesn’t feel like spam. This means it can’t be selfish. It needs to have generosity.
- Show that you’ve done some research (spammers don’t do research)
- Make it contextual or narrow – something relevant to the time, their last piece of work, or some other link to pique interest.
- Be clear and direct.
- Expect to ask again, and maybe even again…
Again, the outreach is generous, because it’s showing that you’ve invested time in the creator’s work, you know what their values are, and you genuinely are reaching out to help create further forward motion (versus just benefit yourself.)
Infinite Possibilities – What Will You Create?
We live in a world of infinite possibilities – for work, for your business, for great relationships and more. But to realise the possibility requires us to reach out, to ask, to enrol and to do the emotional labour.
And once you enrol, you can do it again. You create a positive cycle that helps us all move forward, and helps create better work.
